Motorcycling's Monoliths Chat #2

It’s said we’re seeing a reemergence of the motorcycle boom. Do either of you feel that we’re on the cusp of a new “age of the motorcycle?”

Tsukamoto I’m not sure on whether or not we can call it a “motorcycle boom” yet, but I can say that we’re seeing younger people start to really discover the fun there is to be had on a motorcycle.

Nishida I also don’t really feel that we’re seeing a motorcycle boom. I say that because I personally experienced Japan’s motorcycle boom in the late ‘80s, and compared to that, it’s a stretch to say that what’s happening now constitutes a “boom.”

Tsukamoto I’m actually not old enough to have had firsthand experience of that boom [laughs].

Nishida I do, however, feel that younger people today are riding bikes more as a means for expressing themselves. Going out somewhere on one or showing that their motorcycle is a part of who they are has become quite popular.

Tsukamoto I get the feeling that there are more and more people who look at the profiles of people making bike-related posts on social media and then feel that they want to try it for themselves.

Nishida I agree. I feel that people who use bikes in their social media posts are already more active in expressing their own lifestyles. It’s less about trying to “jump on what’s trending” and more about us now living in an era where people actively express themselves.

In the motorcycle boom years of the late ‘80s, the bikes are what had the spotlight, but now, they’re being used in positive ways as a means of self-expression and I hope that will continue.

Tsukamoto It also doesn’t feel like a temporary spike that you have with a boom. I feel that the positive aspects of motorcycling are gaining a more lasting awareness. Customers are viewing them in a more positive light, and I think that holds true with the self-expression you mentioned, but also when they’re used as a tool for camping or other activities.

“Sporty” was mentioned just now, but is there a difference in how Honda and Yamaha interpret “sportiness” in your respective corporate cultures?

Tsukamoto That’s what we refer to as the “FUN area” at Honda. Now that I think about it, I don’t think Yamaha uses the word “fun” for that. For us, we categorize our models as being in the “FUN area” or the “Commuter area.” What lies in between the two are offerings based on commuter model platforms, but geared more towards fun, like the CT125 Hunter Cub I just mentioned, for example.

Nishida This is a very interesting topic because it’s where you begin to see the different ideologies or “colors” of our two companies. Yamaha uses “sports” to distinguish bikes outside commuter models. Even our department names do this, with the “Sports Vehicle Development Division” and “Commuter Vehicle Development Division.” The fact that we don’t communicate using the word “fun” so openly might reflect one difference between our corporate culture and Honda’s.

I get the feeling that “FUN” for Honda is more about the fun the customer feels and emphasizes the more literal meaning of the word. For us, when we say “sports,” it’s likely due to the culture established from our roots with Nippon Gakki (today’s Yamaha Corporation).

Let’s say you buy a musical instrument for the first time. You’re not going to immediately play it like a pro; you practice a lot and finally become able to play it well. Once that happens, playing music itself becomes more fun for you and then you want a nicer instrument. Once you have one, you practice even more so you can master it and produce even finer melodies.

We discuss sportbikes in the same manner at Yamaha Motor. Once you’ve bought one, you practice riding it, and as you get better, it becomes even more fun to ride. Each bike you ride encourages your own growth as a rider, and that process itself is how we view “sports” at Yamaha.

Tsukamoto I see, so Yamaha Motor’s culture is to take a much broader view of motorcycling itself.

Nishida Internally, we go so far as to call it “training recreationalized.” [laughs]

Tsukamoto That’s fascinating. For us, the Honda Company Principle or our Mission Statement has “for worldwide customer satisfaction” in it. Based on that, our 2030 Vision is to “serve people worldwide with the joy of expanding their life’s potential.” The root of that lies in the values of our founder, Soichiro Honda, and as a company, our vision is to bring greater convenience and fulfillment to our customers’ lives. In other words, it builds on the original idea behind the Honda Cub.

Sportbikes occupy a somewhat unique position among all that, in that they’re something we want our customers to really enjoy and that makes them undeniably part of our “FUN areas.” But even with all the market research we’ve done in many different countries, we just can’t beat Yamaha when it comes to outright sportiness or the cool factor. You guys are heavyweights, especially with sportiness! [laughs]

Nishida Once we’ve decided we’re going sporty with something, we swing for the fences! [laughs] But, wanting to contribute to a more fulfilling life for people is the same at Yamaha. Commuter vehicles make up 90% of our business, after all. As a customer rides their Yamaha commuter model every day, we still want them to feel enriching and heart-revving moments as much as possible. But the root of it all still lies in our desire to contribute to more fulfilling lives for people. However, when we enter the sport realm of motorcycling, I feel we have a very firm belief that there is always an element of training there. As you practice, you get better, and the better you get, the more you enjoy the sportbike world until you’re hooked and completely engrossed in it.

Tsukamoto In that sense, there’s a clear concept in place then for every bike from Yamaha, whether it’s a sportbike or a commuter model, and it’s perceivable even if you don’t work at Yamaha. Honda may have a slightly broader interpretation regarding that. With the MT-25 and YZF-R25 that came up earlier, I have to say that your ability to offer them at affordable prices while still managing to make them so sporty conjures up quite a bit of envy at Honda. [laughs] The concepts are well fleshed out as well, and I’ll admit, I look up to the MT Series! [laughs] It’s popular both in and outside Japan, especially the MT-07 and MT-09, and then there’s the Tracer Series as well. To be honest, I really want to build bikes like that some day, and we’re taking the liberty of using them as our benchmarks. I said this earlier, but again, I feel the series’ concept is really clear.

Nishida Thank you. Forgive me for tooting my own horn here, but I do feel that the MT-07 and MT-09 have the credentials and success now to indeed serve as benchmarks. But if we can go back to what we were talking about before, if asking whether they are about “fun” or “sport,” these bikes do fall more towards the latter.

Take the MT-07 for example. It’s got a middleweight 700cc engine, is in a price range that isn’t too demanding, and so on, so it’s not the most exotic of bikes out there, but at the same time, it still requires a certain level of respect or skill from the rider.

Riding a bike well requires certain inputs at the controls, and when you get those just right, the ride becomes even more fun and the bike is built to do that. When you practice and get better on it, you feel that sense of satisfaction or accomplishment. It really is “training recreationalized” like that.

The first MT-09 may have gone rather overboard with that. I’m glad to hear you say you see MT models as benchmarks, but at the same time, hearing that made me realize that with our “training recreationalized” approach, it has settled into what it is today having first swung this way or that way with our models over time.

On the other hand, Honda got a massive hit with the Rebel 250. Why do you think that is?

Tsukamoto The reason is probably different from customers who choose a Yamaha because they’re cool, [laughs] but I think the main reason people buy a Rebel is because the low seat height, light weight, and so on make it really easy to ride. The affordable price is also another reason we believe the Rebel has proven popular.

Nishida This is something I think the Rebel shares with the GB350, but even though it has a high quality fit and finish, the fact that there are still some things left “incomplete” actually becomes an appeal point. It’s built in a way that entices you to customize it. Plus, there are custom bike influencers on social media and their followers often end up wanting to do the kind of custom work they see, so there is that complementary effect as well.

Us on the other hand, yes, we’re all about sportbikes, [laughs] but this one time, I was in the U.S. to do some market research while pondering what we would offer besides sportbikes, and I saw a whole bunch of Rebel 500s lined up in front of a dealership. It was a little hard for me to believe that this was the bike that was selling in the U.S. [laughs]

Some time after that, the Rebel 250 started to take off in popularity here in Japan as well. They’re just flying off the dealership floors! [laughs] And like you said, I also think how easy they are to ride and the affordable price are big factors, but I also think its looks and readiness for customization are additional contributors.

Tsukamoto Well, just as you said, we were very fastidious about nailing the stylishness and high-quality feel with the Rebel 250. In fact, one of our concepts for the bike was to have the customer “raise” or “grow” the bike through customization and other means. In actuality, it wasn’t an instant hit, but rather a bike that gradually began to sell over time. Even from a global perspective, I feel that the Rebel is a model that was basically “raised” by our customers.

With the shift to electrification and the need to meet ever-stricter emissions regulations, aren’t some riders worried that all this will kill off the fun in motorcycling?

Tsukamoto I think a lot of this depends on the customer. In other words, isn’t what customers find fun the most important thing?

I feel that values surrounding this in Japan are changing. I’ve said this a couple times already since we began this chat, but people here are starting to see motorcycles less as things to enjoy in and of themselves and more as tools for doing something. If that’s the case, I think even electric bikes can still offer the same kind of fun that has captured the hearts of our customers today.

Of course, it’s not an all-encompassing solution. Some things you just can’t replicate with electric bikes, like the tangible pulse and beat of an engine. But on the other hand, you can put out serious torque with an electric motor and that offers a kind of fun different from everything until now. Plus, since it doesn’t emit any greenhouse gases, I think the possibilities for uses and usable locations will grow.

However, the type of fun may be different from what it has been until now.

Nishida It’s exactly as you say. Depending on what you find interesting, one thing may be entirely boring to one person, but be very interesting for someone else in a completely different way.

However, take electrification, for example. I think that going with engineering and development that just carries on what’s fun right now isn’t very appealing. From my standpoint as an engineer, going in to the company every day to engineer and create something new that serves only to carry on today’s fun doesn’t sound very stimulating to me. Since we’ve got this new “electric” canvas to work with, I’d rather work to produce something that takes advantage of those characteristics and offers a kind of fun unlike any before. On top of that, it’s still not a big business yet, so all the more reason to freely throw out and try ideas, because now’s the time for that. This may sound pretty selfish for an engineer, but that’s what I think.

In the end, what comes out of that may not prove very interesting for customers today. But I want to say that there are other, different kinds of fun to be found. And if some people are drawn to one kind of fun or begin to expect it from us, I think giving them what they want is one of the unique joys of this job.

Tsukamoto Our stance is the same. We don’t really see electric bikes as an extension of our motorcycles with internal combustion engines. If anything, I feel it’s a mistake to think of things that way.

From the value offered as a vehicle to market positioning and more, there are undoubtedly unique things we can accomplish by using electric motors. There’s even the potential to create a new segment of customers that will confidently state, “Oh, I’d ride it if it was an electric.”

Plus, we’re really in the midst of the dawn of the electric motorcycle. There should be lots of challenges. Internal combustion engined motorcycles didn’t get to this point of maturity without all kinds of repeated trial and error. Because the sun is only just beginning to rise for electric bikes right now, I feel we need to go ahead and try various new things with the understanding that Honda’s market share is basically zero and that we too are up-and-comers in this field.